Comments on: Holy Quran about Jesus son of Mary (Hadhrat Eesa) http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/ based on or in accordance with reason or logic Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:34:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Ahsan Mian http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-507 Ahsan Mian Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:05:02 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-507 Also, there is another thing which i have crossed upon. On Al Islam.org, the link with the Holy Quran with the Short English commentary, if we go to chapter 30, verse 56; we see: “Remember the time when Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die (note 1) a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear the of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.” Note 1: Mutawaffi is derived from Tawaffa. They say Tawaffa Allahu Zaidan, i.e., God took away the soul of Zaid, namely He caused him to die. When God is the subject and a human being is the object, Tawaffa has no other meaning than that of taking away the soul, whether in slep or death. Ibn ‘Abbas has translated Mutawaffai-ka as Mumitu-ka, i.e., I will cause thee to die (Bukhari). Similarly, Zamakhshari, an Arab linguist of great repute, says: “Mutawaffi-ka means, I will protect thee from being killed by the people and will grant thee full lease of life ordained for thee, and will cause thee to die a natural death, not being killed” (Kashshaf). In fact, all Arabic lexicographers are agreed on the point that the word Tawaffa as used in the aforesaid, manner, can bear no other interpretation and not a single instance from the whole Arabic literature can be cited of this word having been used in any other sense. Outstanding scholars and Commentators like: Ibn ‘Abbas, Imam malik, Imam Bukhari, Imam Ibn hazm, Imam Ibn Qayyim, Qatadah, Wahhab, and others of the same view.(Bukhari, ch. On Tafsir; Bukhari, ch. On Bad’ al Khalq; Bihar; Al-Muhalla, ma’ad, p.19; Manthru ii.; Kathir). The word has been used in no less than 24 different places in the Quran and in no less than 23 of them the meaning is to take away the sould at the time of death. Only in two places the meaning is to take away the soul at the time of sleep; but here the qualifying word “sleep” or “night” has been added (6:61, 39:43). The fact canot be denied that Jesus is dead. The Holy Prophet is reported to have said, “Had Moses and Jesus now been alive, they would have found themselves forced to follow me” (Kathir). He even fixed the age of Jesus at 120 year (‘Ummal). The Qur’an, in as many as 30 verses, has completely demolished the absurd belief of the physical ascension of Jesus to, and his supposed life in, heaven. Note: EVERYTHING HERE IS QUOTED FROM Mirza Tahir Ahmad's Commentary, NOT MINE! This is the extensive commentary on the Holy Qur'an done by Mirza Tahir Ahmad (may god bless his soul) The Fourth Successor of the Promised Messiah. Fourth Head Ahmadiyya Muslim Community Jama'at. Also, there is another thing which i have crossed upon. On Al Islam.org, the link with the Holy Quran with the Short English commentary, if we go to chapter 30, verse 56; we see: “Remember the time when Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die (note 1) a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear the of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.”
Note 1: Mutawaffi is derived from Tawaffa. They say Tawaffa Allahu Zaidan, i.e., God took away the soul of Zaid, namely He caused him to die. When God is the subject and a human being is the object, Tawaffa has no other meaning than that of taking away the soul, whether in slep or death. Ibn ‘Abbas has translated Mutawaffai-ka as Mumitu-ka, i.e., I will cause thee to die (Bukhari). Similarly, Zamakhshari, an Arab linguist of great repute, says: “Mutawaffi-ka means, I will protect thee from being killed by the people and will grant thee full lease of life ordained for thee, and will cause thee to die a natural death, not being killed” (Kashshaf). In fact, all Arabic lexicographers are agreed on the point that the word Tawaffa as used in the aforesaid, manner, can bear no other interpretation and not a single instance from the whole Arabic literature can be cited of this word having been used in any other sense. Outstanding scholars and Commentators like: Ibn ‘Abbas, Imam malik, Imam Bukhari, Imam Ibn hazm, Imam Ibn Qayyim, Qatadah, Wahhab, and others of the same view.(Bukhari, ch. On Tafsir; Bukhari, ch. On Bad’ al Khalq; Bihar; Al-Muhalla, ma’ad, p.19; Manthru ii.; Kathir). The word has been used in no less than 24 different places in the Quran and in no less than 23 of them the meaning is to take away the sould at the time of death. Only in two places the meaning is to take away the soul at the time of sleep; but here the qualifying word “sleep” or “night” has been added (6:61, 39:43). The fact canot be denied that Jesus is dead. The Holy Prophet is reported to have said, “Had Moses and Jesus now been alive, they would have found themselves forced to follow me” (Kathir). He even fixed the age of Jesus at 120 year (‘Ummal). The Qur’an, in as many as 30 verses, has completely demolished the absurd belief of the physical ascension of Jesus to, and his supposed life in, heaven.

Note: EVERYTHING HERE IS QUOTED FROM Mirza Tahir Ahmad’s Commentary, NOT MINE!
This is the extensive commentary on the Holy Qur’an done by Mirza Tahir Ahmad (may god bless his soul)
The Fourth Successor of the Promised Messiah.
Fourth Head Ahmadiyya Muslim Community Jama’at.

]]> By: Ahsan Mian http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-506 Ahsan Mian Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:16:54 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-506 Asalam, brother (the Admin) I want to say that this is a really great blog, and the topics are just awesome :) Good Going! Any who, I would like add something: I fell upon this book called Lecture Sialkot, it was a lectured which was delivered by Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as), founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at, on November the 2th, 1904 at Sialkot - a town in Punjab, India. In this lecture he responded to a question which was raised to him about as to why the Promised Messiah is called Jesus in the Hadiths (and thus, people start to believe it is Jesus himself who is suppose to come as the Latter Messiah). The answer to this question is most rationale and indeed self explanatory. If there are questions that arise about this in argument, then ... there is only so much we can do. His answer was: "the objection simply does not arise as to why the Promised Messiah was named Jesus in Hadith if he was to appear from among the Muslims, for it is the Divine practice to name some people after others. Abu Jahl, for instance, has been called ‘The Pharaoh’ in Hadith. Similarly, Noah (as) has been called ‘The Second Adam’ and John the Baptist has been called ‘Elijah’. No one denies that this is the Divine practice". (Reference 1). This is the truth in all Books of Religions therefore it should not be taken so literal when instances as such are mentioned. Divine practices are basically things God does time and again, i.e. Protect his Messengers, chastise the wrongdoers, give the ups and downs to the earth’s religions, for instance, he sends a messenger once the world has gone astray from the right path, repeats history, basically, that kind of stuff. Reference 1: (Promised Messiah, Lecture Sialkot, page 19-20). There is also another thing which I would like to quote, this time from the Holy Quran, it is Surah Al-Imran. As we (Muslims) believe that all names of Holy Men that are mentioned in the Holy Quran are those of Prophets, ie Jesus (as), Noah (as), Ibrahim (as), Mohammad (sa), etc. These people are all prophets, right? If so, considering the next verse from the Holy Quran, it clearly mentions the natural death of ALL prophets: “Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, ALL Messengers have passed away before him.” (Surah Al-Imran; The House of Imran, 3:145). If Jesus is excluded from this, then what status does he have? Is he considered not to be a prophet and just a human being, for in this situation we would clearly understand that he in not under the scope of this verse? Or is his status more than a Prophet? Or is he of more status than the Holy Prophet? Or has more right than anyone in the world, namely the Holy Prophet Rasooll-ul- lah (saw), to be excluded from him being under the scope of this verse? Not to mention, Holy Prophet (saw)’s teachings are the most Perfect teachings in the world as compared to the commandments revealed to Jesus. Basically in all aspects, Holy Prophet (saw) is all-together more perfect in his teaching, personality, character, life, exemplar and etc as compared to Jesus. That is why “the teachings preached by Jesus was not so perfect as the teaching of the Holy Quran, because the time for a perfect teaching had not arrived, and the human capabilities were not mature enough at the time, still, in the context of the prevailing conditions, it was the most appropriate teachings’ at the time for Jesus. (As quoted from the Promised Messiah, Lecture Sialkot, page 2) I will submit more on this topic and others, but I will now get something to eat, then be bak after. Asalam, brother (the Admin) I want to say that this is a really great blog, and the topics are just awesome :) Good Going!
Any who, I would like add something: I fell upon this book called Lecture Sialkot, it was a lectured which was delivered by Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as), founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at, on November the 2th, 1904 at Sialkot – a town in Punjab, India.
In this lecture he responded to a question which was raised to him about as to why the Promised Messiah is called Jesus in the Hadiths (and thus, people start to believe it is Jesus himself who is suppose to come as the Latter Messiah). The answer to this question is most rationale and indeed self explanatory. If there are questions that arise about this in argument, then … there is only so much we can do.
His answer was: “the objection simply does not arise as to why the Promised Messiah was named Jesus in Hadith if he was to appear from among the Muslims, for it is the Divine practice to name some people after others. Abu Jahl, for instance, has been called ‘The Pharaoh’ in Hadith. Similarly, Noah (as) has been called ‘The Second Adam’ and John the Baptist has been called ‘Elijah’. No one denies that this is the Divine practice”. (Reference 1). This is the truth in all Books of Religions therefore it should not be taken so literal when instances as such are mentioned.
Divine practices are basically things God does time and again, i.e. Protect his Messengers, chastise the wrongdoers, give the ups and downs to the earth’s religions, for instance, he sends a messenger once the world has gone astray from the right path, repeats history, basically, that kind of stuff.
Reference 1: (Promised Messiah, Lecture Sialkot, page 19-20).
There is also another thing which I would like to quote, this time from the Holy Quran, it is Surah Al-Imran. As we (Muslims) believe that all names of Holy Men that are mentioned in the Holy Quran are those of Prophets, ie Jesus (as), Noah (as), Ibrahim (as), Mohammad (sa), etc. These people are all prophets, right? If so, considering the next verse from the Holy Quran, it clearly mentions the natural death of ALL prophets: “Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, ALL Messengers have passed away before him.” (Surah Al-Imran; The House of Imran, 3:145).
If Jesus is excluded from this, then what status does he have? Is he considered not to be a prophet and just a human being, for in this situation we would clearly understand that he in not under the scope of this verse? Or is his status more than a Prophet? Or is he of more status than the Holy Prophet? Or has more right than anyone in the world, namely the Holy Prophet Rasooll-ul- lah (saw), to be excluded from him being under the scope of this verse? Not to mention, Holy Prophet (saw)’s teachings are the most Perfect teachings in the world as compared to the commandments revealed to Jesus. Basically in all aspects, Holy Prophet (saw) is all-together more perfect in his teaching, personality, character, life, exemplar and etc as compared to Jesus. That is why “the teachings preached by Jesus was not so perfect as the teaching of the Holy Quran, because the time for a perfect teaching had not arrived, and the human capabilities were not mature enough at the time, still, in the context of the prevailing conditions, it was the most appropriate teachings’ at the time for Jesus. (As quoted from the Promised Messiah, Lecture Sialkot, page 2)

I will submit more on this topic and others, but I will now get something to eat, then be bak after.

]]> By: Isa bin Maryam (Jesus son of Mary) and Learned and Eminent Scholars of Islam : Rationality http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-294 Isa bin Maryam (Jesus son of Mary) and Learned and Eminent Scholars of Islam : Rationality Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:15:14 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-294 [...] Note: This is a supporting evidence only. The primary source is still the Holy Quran which has been quoted in another blog [...] [...] Note: This is a supporting evidence only. The primary source is still the Holy Quran which has been quoted in another blog [...]

]]> By: admin http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-293 admin Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:46:41 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-293 Good try but there are six issues (1) You are narrating weak Ahadith which is not found in any Sahih books. A weak Hadith cannot be a judge over the verse of the Holy Quran that is supported by other verses of the Holy Quran (this is very important point). You cannot take an arbitrary weak Hadith and brush off all supporting verses of the Holy Quran away and make it a judge and interpretation of a verse of Holy Quran. Secondly Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbas' opinion in Sahih Bukhari is more reliable (where he agrees that wafat means death) than some unknown book written after 1300 years. (2) Whatever Anwar Shah Kashmiri sahib wrote cannot be used as a reference because he is not an authority for us after the claim of Mirza Sahib as Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi. It is like an Ahmadi scholar writes something that cannot be an authority for you, so we will not quote anything from our books. We have to go to the common grounds before the claim of Mirza sahib. If he has quoted some sahih Hadith, please quote it. How can there not be a single Hadith in 6 authentic books of Ahadith? (3) Your notion that whole Ummah is in favour of life of Isa bin Maryam is completely baseless. In fact the opposite is true and I'll will a separate blog on this topic with reference to 30 accepted scholars of Islam starting from the companions of the Holy Prophet (saw) to the arrival of the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi (as), Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (alaihi salam) who believe Isa bin Maryam died like all other prophets. You may get surprised to see some names and Insha'Allah I will provide copies from original books as well. Please stay tuned for this. [ <a href="http://rationality.ca/2008/06/18/isa-bin-maryam-jesus-son-of-mary-and-learned-and-eminent-scholars-of-islam/" rel="nofollow">this is done here now</a> ] (4) You have not answered the question as to the abode of Allah (swt). Do you believe He is confined to some place or is He everywhere like Holy Quran says He is the Light of the Heavens and Earth. So if He is everywhere how do you raise someone to Allah (swt)? How can it be a physical ascension? There are verses of the Holy Quran and Ahadith which talk about Raising Someone to Allah (Rafa') and no where it means physical ascension (references can be provided upon request). The verse says He raised him TOWARDS HIMSELF, it does not say raising to some skies. He raised his spiritual status and after that he completed his mission towards the Lost Tribes of Israel and died. He is and will remain a prophet towards Bani Israel (VERSE #15 in this article). (5) You have yet to present your arguments for the rest of the verses of the Holy Quran, otherwise there will be contradiction in the verses and there can be no doubt or contradiction between any verses of the Holy Quran. (6) I just realized that you have not presented any counter-argument on what I wrote in the first place for Verse #7; <blockquote> The verse clearly indicates that Hadhrat Jesus was to <strong>die a natural death and then</strong> only would he be raised to Allah. The verse does not say that Hadhrat Jesus (alaihi sallam) will be raised first then will die. An important word used in the Quran is mutawaffi, derived from tawaffa. <strong>When God is the subject and a human is the object, tawaffa means to take away the soul, i.e, death</strong>.</blockquote> I really appreciate your taking time to write here. May Allah (swt) Help you to reach the Truth. Ameen. Good try but there are six issues

(1) You are narrating weak Ahadith which is not found in any Sahih books. A weak Hadith cannot be a judge over the verse of the Holy Quran that is supported by other verses of the Holy Quran (this is very important point). You cannot take an arbitrary weak Hadith and brush off all supporting verses of the Holy Quran away and make it a judge and interpretation of a verse of Holy Quran. Secondly Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbas’ opinion in Sahih Bukhari is more reliable (where he agrees that wafat means death) than some unknown book written after 1300 years.

(2) Whatever Anwar Shah Kashmiri sahib wrote cannot be used as a reference because he is not an authority for us after the claim of Mirza Sahib as Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi. It is like an Ahmadi scholar writes something that cannot be an authority for you, so we will not quote anything from our books. We have to go to the common grounds before the claim of Mirza sahib. If he has quoted some sahih Hadith, please quote it. How can there not be a single Hadith in 6 authentic books of Ahadith?

(3) Your notion that whole Ummah is in favour of life of Isa bin Maryam is completely baseless. In fact the opposite is true and I’ll will a separate blog on this topic with reference to 30 accepted scholars of Islam starting from the companions of the Holy Prophet (saw) to the arrival of the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi (as), Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (alaihi salam) who believe Isa bin Maryam died like all other prophets. You may get surprised to see some names and Insha’Allah I will provide copies from original books as well. Please stay tuned for this. [ this is done here now ]

(4) You have not answered the question as to the abode of Allah (swt). Do you believe He is confined to some place or is He everywhere like Holy Quran says He is the Light of the Heavens and Earth. So if He is everywhere how do you raise someone to Allah (swt)? How can it be a physical ascension? There are verses of the Holy Quran and Ahadith which talk about Raising Someone to Allah (Rafa’) and no where it means physical ascension (references can be provided upon request). The verse says He raised him TOWARDS HIMSELF, it does not say raising to some skies. He raised his spiritual status and after that he completed his mission towards the Lost Tribes of Israel and died. He is and will remain a prophet towards Bani Israel (VERSE #15 in this article).

(5) You have yet to present your arguments for the rest of the verses of the Holy Quran, otherwise there will be contradiction in the verses and there can be no doubt or contradiction between any verses of the Holy Quran.

(6) I just realized that you have not presented any counter-argument on what I wrote in the first place for Verse #7;

The verse clearly indicates that Hadhrat Jesus was to die a natural death and then only would he be raised to Allah. The verse does not say that Hadhrat Jesus (alaihi sallam) will be raised first then will die. An important word used in the Quran is mutawaffi, derived from tawaffa. When God is the subject and a human is the object, tawaffa means to take away the soul, i.e, death.

I really appreciate your taking time to write here. May Allah (swt) Help you to reach the Truth. Ameen.

]]> By: Muhammad Wasim http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-291 Muhammad Wasim Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:16:50 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-291 Like the whole Ummah, Hazrat Ibne Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) also believes in the existence of Christ. He has narrated many traditions from the Holy Prophet SallAllah-o-Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam which are related with the lifting and descend of Christ. In ‘Altesreh Bima Tawater Fi Nazool Almeseh’ Hazrat Anwar Shah Kashmiri (Rahmatullah Alaih) has collected ten traditions with reference to Hazrat Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) concerning the lifting and descend of Hazrat Isa Alaih-i-Salam. B- The man who narrates Hazrat Ibne Abbas’s tradition is Akli bin Aby Talha (Tafseer Ibne Jareer, v.3, p.290). The scholars in ‘Asma Alrijal’ have wrote about him that he is not an authentic narrator. Moreover, he never saw Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho). Muhashid (Rahmatullah Alaih) is a connection between them. (Mazanal Atadal, v.5, p.163 Tehzeeb Altehzeeb, v.4, p.213) The question arises that how this tradition occurs in Sahey Bukhari. Its reason is that Imam Bukhari (Rahmatullah Alaih) was particular about only ‘Ahadith Masnadah’ and not about ‘Taleqat’, as in ‘Fateh Mughees’, p.20 is written that: “Imam Bukhari has said that in his book he gave place only those (traditions) whose authenticity is proved. In fact, it includes only ‘Ahadith Saheyah Masnadah’. The other ‘Taleqat’ and ‘A’asar Moqufa’ are not included in it. In the same way the Ahadith that appear in ‘Tarjamatal Bab’ are not included in it. C- Though in the other ‘Sahey’ tradition Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) takes the meaning of as death,” but in the same tradition the very words of the Ayah negate the Qadiani point of view. (Dar Manshoor, v.2, p.36) “Ibne Asakar and Ishaq bin Basher have related with reference to Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) that the Ayah has the meaning that ‘I am that who will lift you towards Myself and then in the last period (after descend) I will give you death”. In Tafseer Ibn Kaseer there is a ‘Sahay’ tradition narrated by Abdullah Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) that Christ was lifted towards heavens without being murdered (Tafseer Ibn Kaseer, v.1, p.574). “Isa Alaih-i-Salam was lifted towards heavens through a ventilator. The authenticity is correct up to Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho)” These are all references towards the explaination of verse no 7 qoted by you If you dont believe in, there is no way I can justify myself. Like the whole Ummah, Hazrat Ibne Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) also believes in the existence of Christ. He has narrated many traditions from the Holy Prophet SallAllah-o-Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam which are related with the lifting and descend of Christ. In ‘Altesreh Bima Tawater Fi Nazool Almeseh’ Hazrat Anwar Shah Kashmiri (Rahmatullah Alaih) has collected ten traditions with reference to Hazrat Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) concerning the lifting and descend of Hazrat Isa Alaih-i-Salam.

B- The man who narrates Hazrat Ibne Abbas’s tradition is Akli bin Aby Talha (Tafseer Ibne Jareer, v.3, p.290).

The scholars in ‘Asma Alrijal’ have wrote about him that he is not an authentic narrator. Moreover, he never saw Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho). Muhashid (Rahmatullah Alaih) is a connection between them.

(Mazanal Atadal, v.5, p.163 Tehzeeb Altehzeeb, v.4, p.213)

The question arises that how this tradition occurs in Sahey Bukhari. Its reason is that Imam Bukhari (Rahmatullah Alaih) was particular about only ‘Ahadith Masnadah’ and not about ‘Taleqat’, as in ‘Fateh Mughees’, p.20 is written that:

“Imam Bukhari has said that in his book he gave place only those (traditions) whose authenticity is proved. In fact, it includes only ‘Ahadith Saheyah Masnadah’. The other ‘Taleqat’ and ‘A’asar Moqufa’ are not included in it. In the same way the Ahadith that appear in ‘Tarjamatal Bab’ are not included in it.

C- Though in the other ‘Sahey’ tradition Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) takes the meaning of as death,” but in the same tradition the very words of the Ayah negate the Qadiani point of view.

(Dar Manshoor, v.2, p.36)

“Ibne Asakar and Ishaq bin Basher have related with reference to Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) that the Ayah has the meaning that ‘I am that who will lift you towards Myself and then in the last period (after descend) I will give you death”.

In Tafseer Ibn Kaseer there is a ‘Sahay’ tradition narrated by Abdullah Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho) that Christ was lifted towards heavens without being murdered

(Tafseer Ibn Kaseer, v.1, p.574). “Isa Alaih-i-Salam was lifted towards heavens through a ventilator. The authenticity is correct up to Ibn Abbas (Razi Allah-o-Anho)”

These are all references towards the explaination of verse no 7 qoted by you If you dont believe in, there is no way I can justify myself.

]]> By: admin http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-290 admin Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:38:54 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-290 Yes, all these signs have been fulfilled but let me remind you again we are not discussin Mirza Sahib. We are discussing the life and death of Isa bin Maryam who was a prophet towards bani Israel. Why have you not commented on the verses of the Holy Quran? Do you accept them or reject them? Yes, all these signs have been fulfilled but let me remind you again we are not discussin Mirza Sahib. We are discussing the life and death of Isa bin Maryam who was a prophet towards bani Israel.

Why have you not commented on the verses of the Holy Quran? Do you accept them or reject them?

]]> By: Muhammad Wasim http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-289 Muhammad Wasim Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:21:22 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-289 Abu Hurairah (Razi Allah-o-Anho)said that the Holy Prophet SallAllah-o-Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam has said that ‘though the ‘Shariat’ of every religion is different, but the principles of all the ‘shariat’ (divine law) are the same. And I am the closest to Isa Alaih-i-Salam because there is no Prophet between he and I. He will appear. If you see him, recognize him. He will be of middle height. His colour will be a mixture of red and white. He will be wearing clothes of two colours. Drops of water will be falling from his head though it will not be wet. He will break the cross and abolish ‘Jizia (tax liened on non-Muslims). He will invite all the people towards Islam. God will afface all the religions except Islam. ‘Dajjal’ will be murdered in his age. After it peace will prevail in the whole world. Even lion and camel, leapard and cow, wolf and goat will eat, drink together. Children will play with snakes. The snakes will not harm them. Isa Alaih-i-Salam will remain on earth for forty years. After it he will die and the Muslims will say his funeral prayer. Just tell me how many signs of Mr Mirza being so called MASIEH have been fulfilled? has the cross been broken and all others mentioned above.???????? Abu Hurairah (Razi Allah-o-Anho)said that the Holy Prophet SallAllah-o-Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam has said that ‘though the ‘Shariat’ of every religion is different, but the principles of all the ‘shariat’ (divine law) are the same. And I am the closest to Isa Alaih-i-Salam because there is no Prophet between he and I. He will appear. If you see him, recognize him. He will be of middle height. His colour will be a mixture of red and white. He will be wearing clothes of two colours. Drops of water will be falling from his head though it will not be wet. He will break the cross and abolish ‘Jizia (tax liened on non-Muslims). He will invite all the people towards Islam. God will afface all the religions except Islam. ‘Dajjal’ will be murdered in his age. After it peace will prevail in the whole world. Even lion and camel, leapard and cow, wolf and goat will eat, drink together. Children will play with snakes. The snakes will not harm them. Isa Alaih-i-Salam will remain on earth for forty years. After it he will die and the Muslims will say his funeral prayer.
Just tell me how many signs of Mr Mirza being so called MASIEH have been fulfilled? has the cross been broken and all others mentioned above.????????

]]> By: Muhammad Wasim http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-288 Muhammad Wasim Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:16:43 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-288 Admin: Please quote the Hadith that you have quoted on the correct blog. This blog entry is for discussion on the Holy Quran about Isa bin Maryam. Admin: Please quote the Hadith that you have quoted on the correct blog. This blog entry is for discussion on the Holy Quran about Isa bin Maryam.

]]> By: admin http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-287 admin Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:14:59 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-287 You said verse 7 said he was sent to skies but there is no sky mentioned there. Allah says He raised him towards HIMSELF. Where is Allah? Allah is everywhere, which means Jesus did not even move an inch. Not only that Holy Quran and Hadith tell us that whenever Allah raises someone it is meant spiritual status. And this makes perfect sense because Jews accused Jesus of being a liar. So Allah increased his status not took him somewhere in the sky to hide him. Please quote verse 61 that you are referring to. Mirza sahib had diseases right according to the Hadith of the Holy Prophet (saw) when he said that isa bin maryam will be covered in two yellow sheets. It is known to the knowledgeable that yellow sheet means disease. Anyway we are not discussing Mirza sahib. Please keep the discussion on this blog entry to the life and death of Jesus (Isa bin Maryam). You said verse 7 said he was sent to skies but there is no sky mentioned there. Allah says He raised him towards HIMSELF. Where is Allah? Allah is everywhere, which means Jesus did not even move an inch.

Not only that Holy Quran and Hadith tell us that whenever Allah raises someone it is meant spiritual status. And this makes perfect sense because Jews accused Jesus of being a liar. So Allah increased his status not took him somewhere in the sky to hide him.

Please quote verse 61 that you are referring to.

Mirza sahib had diseases right according to the Hadith of the Holy Prophet (saw) when he said that isa bin maryam will be covered in two yellow sheets. It is known to the knowledgeable that yellow sheet means disease.

Anyway we are not discussing Mirza sahib. Please keep the discussion on this blog entry to the life and death of Jesus (Isa bin Maryam).

]]> By: Muhammad Wasim http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-285 Muhammad Wasim Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:51:56 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-285 In the name of Almighty Allah the most beneficient and merciful. According to Verse no 7 you qouted above Jesus was died and sent to sky. If you read carefully the verse no 61 of same Surah You will get the answer how Jesus was sent to sky and how he will come back as an Imam in Ummah of Muhammad SAW. As so far the belief of Mr Mirza being Masieh is concerned how a person can be Masieh who cant even make a way out of his own disease? In the name of Almighty Allah the most beneficient and merciful.
According to Verse no 7 you qouted above Jesus was died and sent to sky. If you read carefully the verse no 61 of same Surah You will get the answer how Jesus was sent to sky and how he will come back as an Imam in Ummah of Muhammad SAW.
As so far the belief of Mr Mirza being Masieh is concerned how a person can be Masieh who cant even make a way out of his own disease?

]]> By: admin http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-284 admin Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:25:04 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-284 Thank you Muhammad Wasim for posting a comment on my blog. Yes, I said that those who hold the view that Isa bin Maram is ailve somewhere in the skies are not following Holy Quran and Hadith. And for this purpose I have quoted the verses of the Holy Quran and would like you to please comment on that. Do you believe in these verses or do you reject them? Your simple question is flawed because Ahmadis do believe in the second coming of Isa bin Maryam but not the old one who was a prophet towards Bani Israel only, as you have rightly pointed out that we accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the Promised Messiah who was the most dovout follower of the Holy Prophet (saw). In short, non-Ahmadis believe that same old Isa bin Maryam will come which is against the teachings of Holy Quran, while Ahmadis believe that Isa bin Maryam is a title of Promised Messiah not physically the same person. (for example if you call some brave person a lion it does not make him lion) This is also proved from the Ahadith because <a href="http://www.alislam.org/library/books/qandeel/?page=128" rel="nofollow">Holy Prophet (saw) gave two distinct physical descriptions for the old Isa and the new one that was to come in the Ummah in Sahih Bukhari</a>, which proves it without a shadow of doubt that Isa bin Maryam that was to come in the Ummah of Holy Prophet (saw) is a different person. Not sure why you are interested in Grandma and Grandpa of Jesus, but do let me know. Also tell me how Jesus went to the skies (and yes your answer should be according to Holy Quran and Sahih Hadith) Thank you Muhammad Wasim for posting a comment on my blog. Yes, I said that those who hold the view that Isa bin Maram is ailve somewhere in the skies are not following Holy Quran and Hadith. And for this purpose I have quoted the verses of the Holy Quran and would like you to please comment on that. Do you believe in these verses or do you reject them?

Your simple question is flawed because Ahmadis do believe in the second coming of Isa bin Maryam but not the old one who was a prophet towards Bani Israel only, as you have rightly pointed out that we accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the Promised Messiah who was the most dovout follower of the Holy Prophet (saw).

In short, non-Ahmadis believe that same old Isa bin Maryam will come which is against the teachings of Holy Quran, while Ahmadis believe that Isa bin Maryam is a title of Promised Messiah not physically the same person. (for example if you call some brave person a lion it does not make him lion)

This is also proved from the Ahadith because Holy Prophet (saw) gave two distinct physical descriptions for the old Isa and the new one that was to come in the Ummah in Sahih Bukhari, which proves it without a shadow of doubt that Isa bin Maryam that was to come in the Ummah of Holy Prophet (saw) is a different person.

Not sure why you are interested in Grandma and Grandpa of Jesus, but do let me know. Also tell me how Jesus went to the skies (and yes your answer should be according to Holy Quran and Sahih Hadith)

]]> By: Muhammad Wasim http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-282 Muhammad Wasim Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:50:44 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-282 In the name of Almighty Allah who is the creator of this world, the Lord of everything in all the Worlds. You said that some Muslims believe in that the Jesus will come back as he was taken to sky which means they dont believe in Holy Quran and Hadith. I just want to ask you a simple question how can you say that as you believe in Mr Ghulam Ahmad as the promised Masieh who is he if there is no beleif of a Jesus to be back? Also tell me about the Grandma and Grandpa of Jesus? Waiting for your reply. Your answer must be according to Holy Quran and Sahih Hadith. In the name of Almighty Allah who is the creator of this world, the Lord of everything in all the Worlds.
You said that some Muslims believe in that the Jesus will come back as he was taken to sky which means they dont believe in Holy Quran and Hadith.
I just want to ask you a simple question how can you say that as you believe in Mr Ghulam Ahmad as the promised Masieh who is he if there is no beleif of a Jesus to be back?
Also tell me about the Grandma and Grandpa of Jesus?
Waiting for your reply. Your answer must be according to Holy Quran and Sahih Hadith.

]]> By: Who believes in Khatam-e-Nabuwwat? : Rationality http://rationality.ca/2008/02/20/holy-quran-about-jesus-son-of-mary-hadhrat-eesa/comment-page-1/#comment-269 Who believes in Khatam-e-Nabuwwat? : Rationality Thu, 12 Jun 2008 04:26:28 +0000 http://rationality.ca/?p=6#comment-269 [...] Quran has declared that Isa bin Maryam died like all other prophets. Why do you believe him to be alive and reject Holy [...] [...] Quran has declared that Isa bin Maryam died like all other prophets. Why do you believe him to be alive and reject Holy [...]

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